Twin Pines: the VFX factory, at the gates of the new and crucial stage of fiction
Juanma Nogales, co-founder, and Javier M. Pacín, VFX / CGI supervisor, reflect on the post-production industry and reveal the keys to Twin Pines, a house specialized in VFX that in recent years has participated in such notable works as 'The Snow Society', 'Nowhere', 'Respira', 'Los Farad', 'Lady in the lake', 'Modelo 77' or 'As Bestas' for national and international production companies.
In the now distant year 2008, the year of birth of Twin Pines, the panorama was “completely different” for Juanma Nogales. The Spanish VFX industry, far from the professionalization of its Anglo-Saxon counterparts, faced successive challenges to guarantee its survival by providing latent talent to the local industry.
In this context, the company founded by Nogales himself together with Ana Rubio took its first steps with just three machines and the vision of transform usual processes to provide the best possible finish to your clients. Currently, the company has 60 professionals and extensive facilities in Madrid with all the necessary guarantees to undertake construction projects. global reach.
Juanma Nogales (left) and Javier M. Pacín (right)
This irruption, beyond being due to a porfolio growing and in know-how Applied transversally in each phase of the project, it responds to the change in consumption caused by the emergence of VOD platforms, as well as the renewed role of Spanish post-production in the global industry; a role largely driven by the fantastic cover letter provided by companies such as The Ranchito in projects like Game of Thrones or, later, The Mandalorian. Netflix, Prime Video, Disney+, Apple TV o Movistar Plus+ are just some of the clients of Twin Pines, a company that has worked on feature film projects of the caliber of The Snow Society, As Bestas, Nowhere, The Instigators, Model 77, Maixabel, While the war lasts o Nowhere, and series like Breathe, Lady in the Lake, The Farads, The Snow Girl, See, Blackout, The Plague o Elite.
In this interview, Nogales y M. Pacín address the growth of VFX Spanish from the prism strategic, business and technological, responding to some of its main challenges, whether the solvable oh go chronic. Additionally, the duo introduces an interesting analysis industrial around the slowdown and redefinition of the projects, which anticipates a new phase of adaptation faced, once again, with a world of fiction that tries to find the balance between investment, creation and return.
Year 2024 and the VFX industry in Spain
In the contexts of current and most common visual effects, does craftsmanship, creativity or problem solving take precedence?
Juanma Nogales (JN): The industry has changed a lot. In the early 2000s there were very little professionalization within VFX for film and television. You had to improvise on the fly. You more or less knew how they were done, but “you had to see”, which made each project a challenge almost on a personal level. Therefore, each VFX project was a milestone, and it was mandatory to “find your way” to do it within time and budget.
Everything is becoming more professional as digital cinema advances. VFX processes began to be standardized and these worked for the type of assignments of the time; There were no films with great VFX or many shots of this type, so everything was much more restrained. This changed with the arrival of platforms. From there, the processes were standardized and professionalized, I think for the better, because before there were gaps in all aspects.
Juanma Nogales: “With the arrival of the platforms, the processes of VFX with standardized and it they professionalized”.
When I talk about processes, I am not only talking about the creative aspect, but also about processes of budget, security or tracking. In the end, the arrival of the platforms provided business-level elements necessary to be able to grow and maintain itself. With the level of uncertainty that existed before, it was very difficult for a VFX company to grow.
Javier M. Pacín (JMP): The difference between the level of production before and what we have now is very noticeable. For any company it was impossible to invest to grow with the level of production that existed, since in some cases there could be only one project a year. Now we have a continuous level of production and everyone has moved on. It is true that platforms have demanded many things that were not necessary before, which has meant a big change from that time to now.
Twin Pines has opened new facilities in response to its growth. What type of needs cause the need to undertake these transfers?
JMP: On the one hand, the more people you have, the more space you need, and it is usually interesting that it is not distributed in rooms that are too compartmentalized so that everyone can work easily. But, afterwards, it is common to find that you need a level of electricity, between machines, NAS servers and others, which traditional offices cannot give you. On the other hand, there is the security. It is necessary to have offices with access control and where everything is more monitored.
The second and new stage after the platform boom
Are the 60 Twin Pines workers a permanent staff of the VFX company? How many projects does this team manage annually?
JN: Son 60 fixed. This gives us the possibility of having best, to whom we give security and peace of mind that many people seek. Profiles are gradually being incorporated into this team. junior that are growing with us. It is that mixture of desire and youth, and of experience and talent, with which we can carry out projects.
As for the projects, it is difficult to say. everyone has very different phases. For example, I am now locating a series that will surely be filmed between November and December; Afterwards, the filming and post-production phase will arrive, which extends the calendar a lot. As a guide, I could confirm that right now we will be around 5 or 6 projects.
Juanma Nogales: “I no longer see so much optimism, nor so much growing curve. I am not catastrophic, but in this second phase After the platform boom there is a certain change in terms of number and type of projects that arise.”
Taking 2023 as a reference and taking into account that it may be a year of post-pandemic transition, how many projects did you work on in total?
JN: I couldn't say a number from memory, but what I do remember is that the sector as a whole has gone through growth. It has happened to all the players in the local market: there has been a lot of production, a lot of demand for VFX, and we have experienced an upward curve. However, after the writers' and actors' strike in the United States, things begin to change. I no longer see so much optimism, nor so much growing curve. I am not catastrophic, but in this second phase after the platform boom there is a certain change in terms of the number and type of projects that are proposed.
What type of projects are you referring to? Maybe more restrained?
JN: Before, the the limit was set by the scriptwriters. They said: “We are going to make a series that has this, that and the other,” and more or less everyone agreed and they moved forward. Now I think the writers are doing the same thing, but there is another filter that says: “Maybe you don't have to go here or do this.” It's a feeling I have; I can't tell you anything specific, but I can tell you a situation that I notice in the environment.
The global production industry and VFX from Spain
How important is the growing investment from foreign production companies and platforms for a company like Twin Pines?
JN: The arrival of international projects It has been developing for some time. There are several companies, especially El Ranchito, that have opened a lot of doors and have given a category to VFX production in Spain. This, together with the fact that we have been able to demonstrate that we can do our job and do it well, has made many people look at Spanish VFX production companies. In our case, we have done a lot of work to work with certain supervisors and producers and consolidate this type of work.
We are very happy to work in the international market. What happens is that Its approach is very different from the local market, and I am not referring to the budget, but to the control of the project. I get the feeling that, while in the series and films we make here we have greater creative, process or calendar control, this is not so much the case in international ones. All of these projects are really good, they have very cool plans and there are processes that really allow us to learn new things to apply to the local market, but I think that, for us, it is important to have a balance between the two things. Although it is very cool to work with international projects, we don't go too crazy and put everything on the red.
Javier M. Pacín: “Before, no company I couldn't take anything from outside because we did not meet the standards. Now, there are some difficult requirements, but several companies we fulfill”.
We try to plan the years of work around the project calendar. For example, I love working with movies and develop them from the beginning, forming part of the script, locations and all production phases. It is something that personally and business-wise is very interesting and important, since it places us within the market. In short, you have to maintain a balance, but if you have to decide, I do it for the local market.
JMP: They are different worlds. Starting from pre-production and finishing a project, which we frequently do in the local market, is not the same as what comes to us from outside. In these cases, it normally comes already rolled out and there is a supervisor who has supervised it. Also We must value the fact that we have reached this point. Before, no company could take anything from outside because we did not meet the standards. Now, there are some difficult requirements, but several companies meet them and, therefore, we can access these orders.
VFX against obsolescence and new work models
How does Twin Pines address workstation obsolescence and software license management? Are new business models helping to respond to technological variability, or is it still difficult to balance technical needs and budget issues?
JMP: It is true that the subscriptions They help you to be able to renew or cut licenses, but it is true that it forces you to pay every year for versions in which many times nothing changes or you do not need. On the one hand, access becomes easier, since before you thought a lot about purchasing a license due to its cost, but I'm not sure if the final price is better.
Then, in terms of machinery, the truth is that it is non-stop. You try to renew little by little, but there are moments of pressure in which you hire people, you have to have new machines and new NAS, and it is difficult to have something so specialized that works. Then, I won't tell you the prices anymore, since something specialized is 100 times more expensive than something standard. It is complicated, since you cannot stop renewing to reach the level they ask of you.
Javier M. Pacín: “If we all went for one similar line with the pipelines It would be very good, but that It has never happened and it doesn't seem like it will happen. ”.
What improvements, in the form of processes, tools or business models, are missing in the industry?
JMP: Above all, the problem is that there is not something very generalized. Everyone uses more or less the same ones softwares, but it is true that in the end each company makes our own pipeline and this is a problem: you invest a lot of money in customizing it and this makes it very difficult for it to be similar to that of another company, which means that when you share a project with several VFX houses, the processes become complicated.
If we all followed a similar line it would be very good, but that It has never happened and it doesn't seem like it will happen.. Tools always come out, the industry is encouraged to use USD, but then it never happens (laughs).
Will this problem be resolved by coordination between VFX companies or will it have to be provided by technology providers?
JMP: It will never be solved. All great advances occur because a large company has had a production problem. At that moment, that company invents something and we all absorb it little by little. But there is really no one who has come together to say: we are all going to go down this path. I don't think we will ever have a common path.
Juanma Nogales: "He UHD o el 4K DCIis he standardfor us. (…) The good newsis that I think that"It's not going to go up anymore."
In the broadcast panorama, the use of 4K to definitively opt for HDR is beginning to be questioned. Does the VFX world share this rethinking?
JN: UHD or 4K DCI is the standard for us. They will never accept less, which has been adopted naturally in the world of VFX. The good news is that I think it's not going to go up anymore. It was a race that started with HD and every two years you had to go up to 2K or 4K. Now it has been standardized.
Internally, it is true that sometimes we work with specific shots at resolutions such as 6K or 8K for specific needs, but they have never asked us for a render in these resolutions for a complete show. And well, HDR is here to stay and we have adopted it more or less naturally.
AI: a business necessity
What is Twin Pines' vision of the emergence of AI in VFX? In what processes are they using it?
JN: Everyone has an opinion regarding AI. At a business level I tell you that it will have to be implemented for sure, because it is something that is going to be introduced not only in VFX, but in hospitals, on trains and everywhere. That said, we currently only use AI with the tools that Foundry brings.
There is something that worries me a lot at a business and contractual level: being able to incur some type of legal problem with some of our clients for having used AI like crazy. I actually think the issue of rights and how AI has been trained is one of the biggest problems. At that level, let's go with the handbrake applied.
On the other hand, I am personally doing quite a bit of tracking of the things that can be done. Everything is going to change a lot. At the moment, we are using AI in quick cleaning, such as to delete tracks in a chroma with the tools within Nuke. Beyond that, no, and I have a lot of uncertainty, to be honest.
Juanma Nogales: “There is something that I worries a lot at business and contractual level: the power to incur some type of legal problem with some of our customers for having used AI wildly".
JMP: The problem is that every day there seems to be a new AI application that does wonderful things, but then you go to try it and it doesn't work or it doesn't work for us, since it may simply be designed for mobile phones or it is unknown where it came from, who created it or how they did it. We are very attentive, but It's not as “present” as we thought it was going to be..
We thought it was going to take off and, in our case, it is going slowly and we are being able to use many fewer things than we originally thought we would be able to use. It will come for sure, but it will do so little by little. It's not that steamroller it seemed at first..
They have commented that AI can be a business opportunity. From a creative or innovation point of view, can it also be favorable?
JN: At the business level it is important, above all, because you can't be left behind at the customer level. If a client knows that something that was done in one day can now be done in five minutes, they will tell you. So, at a business level it will be a sure change.
On a creative level… We have always worked with very talented people. I'm thinking about our art director, who when you ask for a concept It takes time, and maybe it will give you back what you requested in two or three days and it's wonderful. Now you go to an AI, you ask it, and you have five concepts in five seconds. At a creative level it can condition or help, but I still think that human talent, in that sense, will continue to be essential. You can have those five concepts, that in the end there will always be that creative person who is going to use the best of what they have drunk. Just as before one could go to a library to do documentation, now one can document oneself on the Internet. In that sense, I think that effectiveness is gained, but I think that creativity will always be in a person. In fact, I would say that that's the limit of AI.
Optimism and evolution in the face of the paradigm shift
How do Twin Pines feel about the present of the VFX industry in Spain, in a context of change in volume or typology of projects?
JN: I feel optimistic. VFX is another part of the film creation process. It is true that now everything is being questioned, and the issue of AI will influence, but there will always be a type of audiovisual creation in cinema and television that will need tools that are carried out by creative people. We are going to continue being part of the chain, just like editing, sound, photography or script. You are always going to need people and, in that sense, I think there is going to be a change. Denying it is absurd. But there is not going to be a disappearance. We are going to continue doing very cool things.
What will be Twin Pines' next projects, whether they be work on productions or internal developments to improve their workflows?
JN: We cannot comment much either for contractual reasons, but also because we prefer to be cautious. But hey, there are quite a few very striking things. Internally, we are also developing interesting topics. For example, we have always been behind on the issue of characters, and now we are starting to make small initiatives. We will also develop the theme of IA cautiously, and we will continue working on the controlled growth, which is what must be taken into account to continue surviving in this sector.
JMP: We are trying to develop pipeline that adapts to all our processes, since we have clients from different places. We continue to improve our system to be able to work comfortably with productions here, but also with those from abroad, and this has helped us make all our processes more coherent. We are putting a lot of effort into it and I think will be noticed more and more.
An interview by Sergio Julián Gómez
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